Francis, I have only tried pycnogonal. I really don't notice any difference in my pain. I still take it. I don't think I mentioned I was taking pycnogonal to my doctor. This rheumatologist I am seeing at the present time, does not want me to take any herbs. I just asked him about malic acid, and he said, "no". I also asked about SAM-e, but he also said do not take it. There was a good article in Arthritis Today, Jan. Feb. 2000 in regards to SAM-e. They have done studies and there seems to be some evidence that SAM-e works somewhat for the symptoms of fibromyalgia. More studies need to be done. Thanks. J.W.